the best Transmission Drain pan I have

[MSCH]

one other thing... I've drained the tranny and replaced the filters twice before ( it has 2 filters on the 68RFE.)
but I managed to butcher the seal for the sump filter, didn't have any vehicle at home to drive myself to auto parts
so I had to wait until my son got off work and could go pick up a new filter kit for me with a seal.
so the trans had both filters removed for hours and it completely drained the trans and cooler
because the return filter is on the cooler side, it just kept draining and draining..
usually uses about 8.5 quarts when I change the fluid..
this time it took 11 quarts..
simply because it sat there draining for about 4 hours.

 

[Wayne]

68RFE

Is that the Aisin?

both filters

Internal and external spin-on?

 

[MSCH]

Is that the Aisin?


Internal and external spin-on?

no, Mopar builds the 68RFE.. Aisin is code AS69RC . both filters are internal.. one is a traditional style sump suction filter and the other is a spin on filter that screws into the transmission case and is on the return side of the transmission cooler. ... both filters can be serviced with transmission pan removal.

 

[Wayne]

the other is a spin on filter that screws into the transmission case

I had no idea the Mopar trans has an internal spin-on filter.

How has the 68RFE been? My brother has several Ram trucks with the Aisin and they get hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles pulling 25k pound livestock trailers.

 

[MSCH]

I had no idea the Mopar trans has an internal spin-on filter.

How has the 68RFE been? My brother has several Ram trucks with the Aisin and they get hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles pulling 25k pound livestock trailers.

honestly, if you believe the internet, some will say it is no good but if you find people who actually own one and don't treat put 500 HP to it and generally treat it like a bonehead its pretty good.. kind of like the guys who say the Allison in a GM pickup isn't any good because it is built by GM and not Allison, the dummies who say that sort of stuff having no idea GM owned Allison for about 80 years.

friend of mine tows cars for a living....... the truck in the picture has about 575,000 miles on it now.. the original 68RFE lasted 375,000 miles and it has 200,000 on the rebuild now..

 

[Wayne]

you find people who actually own one and don't treat put 500 HP to it and generally treat it like a bonehead its pretty good

I just don't understand why people need more power than these modern diesels have. Then they burn the clutches in their trans and complain that it broke. You gonna play, you gonna pay.

Allison in a GM pickup isn't any good because it is built by GM and not Allison, the dummies who say that sort of stuff having no idea GM owned Allison for about 80 years.

And GM built many of the Allison 1000s in their HD trucks because Allison licensed GM to build them. I would imagine Allison didn't have the manufacturing capacity to build as many as GM needed. Similar to Dodge building the ZF-8 transmission, because ZF doesn't have the capacity.

 

[MSCH]

I just don't understand why people need more power than these modern diesels have. Then they burn the clutches in their trans and complain that it broke. You gonna play, you gonna pay.


And GM built many of the Allison 1000s in their HD trucks because Allison licensed GM to build them. I would imagine Allison didn't have the manufacturing capacity to build as many as GM needed. Similar to Dodge building the ZF-8 transmission, because ZF doesn't have the capacity.

yeah, exactly... 30 years ago a tractor trailer did not have the power these current pickup trucks have, but somebody isn't content with that..

GM owned Allison and world famous Hydramatic... personally I think both of the 2 are about the best transmission products on the road.. not too mention cost is different when you do it in house instead of having them shipped.

We had quite a few Allison 2000's in service at my job..and the 1000 and the 2000 are similar, the 1000 having a Park feature that isn't needed on air brake equipped vehicles.. and I can tell you one thing about the baby Allison is that I don't think I ever saw one fail... so you have that.

 

[Wayne]

I can tell you one thing about the baby Allison is that I don't think I ever saw one fail

I changed the spin-on filter in my 2018 Duramax with the 1000. I cut the filter and didn't find anything in it, the filter still looked brand new at 43k miles. But my engine was stock and my trans never saw a single wide open throttle shift. I think my trans in that truck would have lasted a million miles.

 

[MSCH]

I changed the spin-on filter in my 2018 Duramax with the 1000. I cut the filter and didn't find anything in it, the filter still looked brand new at 43k miles. But my engine was stock and my trans never saw a single wide open throttle shift. I think my trans in that truck would have lasted a million miles.

I think so too... I think internally those transmissions have a internal metal screen type pickup screenfilter , and they usually have a magnet on top of the spin on filter.. I don't know how long they will last but if the 1000 is anything like the 2000 reliability wise it would probably last the life of the vehicle..

these diesel trucks have so much torque off the line it is pointless to floor them, figure peak torque rpm is 1600 to 1800 or so rpm, I just give mine some throttle to around 2000 rpm and let it shift thru the gears at that point..

my son was driving a Peterbilt with the X15 Cummins, that sucker made like 1700 lbs ft of torque at 900 rpm. Redline was 2000.
basically full grunt mode just off idle.

 

[OLEJOE]

I think so too... I think internally those transmissions have a internal metal screen type pickup screenfilter , and they usually have a magnet on top of the spin on filter.. I don't know how long they will last but if the 1000 is anything like the 2000 reliability wise it would probably last the life of the vehicle..

these diesel trucks have so much torque off the line it is pointless to floor them, figure peak torque rpm is 1600 to 1800 or so rpm, I just give mine some throttle to around 2000 rpm and let it shift thru the gears at that point..

my son was driving a Peterbilt with the X15 Cummins, that sucker made like 1700 lbs ft of torque at 900 rpm. Redline was 2000.
basically full grunt mode just off idle.

I drove a Freightliner Cascadia with the X15 Cummins that was governed at 1275 rpm at 65 mph. The company wanted us to keep them below 1500 rpm in the lower gears and they kept up with it through telematics. Not fast but once you got it in high gear, you could forget it. They told us not to downshift until the computer cut the fuel back. I’ve pulled a lot of hills at 900.

 

[Wayne]

They told us not to downshift until the computer cut the fuel back. I’ve pulled a lot of hills at 900.

There is a semi mechanic on BITOG that says the down-sped engines burn less fuel, but the low RPMs and high torque beat the daylights out of the big end rod bearings.

 

[OLEJOE]

There is a semi mechanic on BITOG that says the down-sped engines burn less fuel, but the low RPMs and high torque beat the daylights out of the big end rod bearings.

They put our used trucks up for sale after they got a million miles on them and they overhauled very few of them. The ones that were overhauled, they would keep running them until they got their money out of them. They serviced them every 50,000 miles.

 

[Wayne]

They put our used trucks up for sale after they got a million miles on them and they overhauled very few of them.

I wonder if it's one particular engine manufacturer that has or had bearing problems and maybe with older engines?

 

[OLEJOE]

I wonder if it's one particular engine manufacturer that has or had bearing problems and maybe with older engines?

I don’t know but we had DD, Cat, Cummins and Mercedes engines all set up the same.

 

[MSCH]

There is a semi mechanic on BITOG that says the down-sped engines burn less fuel, but the low RPMs and high torque beat the daylights out of the big end rod bearings.

those truck engines are built for that... some quotes from Cummins which should generally apply to the other brands... Quote : "Cummins engines are designed to operate successfully at FULL THROTTLE under transient conditions down to peak torque engine speed (RPM). This is consistent with recommended driving practices for good fuel economy. Excessive FULL THROTTLE operation below peak torque RPM will shorten engine life to overhaul, can cause serious engine damage, and is considered engine abuse. ".... ""Operation of the engine below peak torque RPM can occur during gear shifting due to the difference of ratios between transmission gears, but engine operation must not be sustained more than 1 minute at FULL THROTTLE below peak torque RPM. "

worth pointing out the size difference in the internal parts of a 6.7 Cummins versus a Powerstroke or Duramax.

 

[ctechbob]

I'm not entirely convinced that the HO 6.7 PS can maintain its peak output for long periods. I'm also pretty sure that it limits the output in the lower gears. Kinda thinking manufs are reaching the limit of what they can do with these things.

I know people knock TFL all the time, but when the run up the Ike with the HO Ford showed it really wasn't much/any faster than the older model I figured that Ford was playing fast and loose with numbers on their part.

I think the 'derated' 6.7 they put in their commercial trucks is probably much closer to actual 'real world' constant output capability.

 

[Wayne]

Excessive FULL THROTTLE operation below peak torque RPM will shorten engine life to overhaul, can cause serious engine damage, and is considered engine abuse. ".... ""Operation of the engine below peak torque RPM can occur during gear shifting due to the difference of ratios between transmission gears, but engine operation must not be sustained more than 1 minute at FULL THROTTLE below peak torque RPM. "

I'll bet that is what causes the problems with the engines he tears down.

 

[MSCH]

I'm not entirely convinced that the HO 6.7 PS can maintain its peak output for long periods. I'm also pretty sure that it limits the output in the lower gears. Kinda thinking manufs are reaching the limit of what they can do with these things.

I know people knock TFL all the time, but when the run up the Ike with the HO Ford showed it really wasn't much/any faster than the older model I figured that Ford was playing fast and loose with numbers on their part.

I think the 'derated' 6.7 they put in their commercial trucks is probably much closer to actual 'real world' constant output capability.

back in the day when companies like Cummins started bring out those 2000 lbs ft of torque engines in tractor trailer, they would downrate the engine output in the top gears, because the engine would break the transmissions... the transmissions weren't up to it...

you'll find the industrial models of these engines never have as hi of an output as the civilian market pickup truck engines, simply because they sort of know most of the pickup trucks wont see full load full throttle all the time... whereas you find a school bus with a6.7 in it and it might be rated at 250hp... but it will live its life working hard and wont tear itself to pieces doing it.

same applies in the new stuff in vehicles... they have to apply some sort of torque management especially in these diesel pickups as the drivetrains probably cant sustain 100% load at Max GVW, in the highest gears.

problem with transmission is the lower gears are torque multipliers and most of the load is divided between the diff and the gearing and clutches but once you get into the overdrives the gearing becomes a torque divider and the load that used to be carried by the differential gears now starts getting transmitted to the overdrive gears and clutches...

 

[OLEJOE]

I was talking class 8 engines not pickup engines. Huge difference. When you start talking about L10’s, N14’s and X15’s they are not similar to the 6.7’s.

 

[MSCH]

I'll bet that is what causes the problems with the engines he tears down.

dont know what he is working on.. there are too many factors involved for most people on the repair end to make anything but anecdotal observations. I lived in that world for 40 years, half the time you just know the thing is done for and you really don't know why. Its also worth saying everything has a service life, which might be longer or shorter depending on a lot of things.