Dodge/Ram folks are lucky / Towing with a 2018 Ram 1500

[ctechbob]

And somewhat unlucky.

I got the opportunity to drag a trailer home for a friend using her truck. She didn't want to drive since we'd be doing it without a properly set up hitch and we'd be going through some pretty heavily trafficked roads. Her truck of choice is a 2018 Ram 1500 'Big Horn' edition. Not sure what that means in the grand scheme of things other than it has a 1589# payload, and the 5.7 engine with the ZF8 speed.

The trailer is a Cherokee Grey Wolf 274RK (2019) which puts it right on the hairy edge of what this truck should be towing.

Towing the trailer home I'm struck by a few things.

1. It is pretty clear that Ram sets these trucks up to be 4 door sedans with an uncovered trunk. They are soft. That coil-sprung rear suspension....is soft. It will handle the load and is plenty controllable, even in 20mph wind gusts that we had coming home. Again, this was with no WD and no thought given to where the hitch was setup. Pretty much just slap it on and go, since we were only going 30 miles or so.

2. The 5.7 is adequate for the load. I've been so used to driving a turbo truck that the power delivery seemed 'soft' to me, but it wasn't straining and after a while I realized that it was up to the task and suited for the job.

It also makes really nice noises, which I wish my truck would do. I know V8's are going away, but that sound will be missed.

(This is the Lucky Part)
3. The ZF8 is fantastic. The tuning, operation, gear selection, all of it, just great. A+++++ It makes my 10R80 look like a stupid box of rocks comparatively, and my transmission is one of the ones that is working right. I can't say enough good things about that box, I would trade in a heartbeat for it....although I don't love it enough to trade into a Ram.

A few days later, her hitch came in and I set out to install the thing and get it ready to travel. She'd had plenty of time to load the trailer up, so this is as near to 'ready to camp' as we can get it sans their clothes and loading the fridge up. All of the food would be loaded way behind the rear axle, so tongue loadings wouldn't get any worse.

Took me 5 attempts at adjusting brackets and washers, but I got it right on the nose as far as shifting weight back to the front axle. Truck rides level at the moment, but we're in the process of ordering a set of sumosprings for it just to backstop the factory setup a little better.

Nature was nice enough to grace us with another gusty day, so we took it out after finishing up and she is happy with it. I feel it is a pretty safe setup for her (She's not a towing newbie, but this is the biggest camper she's owned). The setup handles admirably right up to highway speeds. No sway to speak of, and the wind actually feels like it disturbs the setup less than it does me with my smaller trailer/smaller truck.

A few more tweaks and I think the Ram will be just fine even given its limitations. I'm going to talk her in to a set of Bilstiens for the rear and we'll go forward with the Sumo's and she'll be good to go. Luckily for her she didn't buy one of the fully loaded Rams with the sub 1300# payload or she'd have been in for a rude awakening.

(As a side note, I did advise her to geta bit smaller trailer, but......we all know that you can only have so much input into a purchase like this, so once I lost that battle, I did the best I could with advising her of the setup she'll need.)

The hitch is a Fastway E2 w/1000# bars.

She's also already shopping new trailer tires, since the ones it came with have some miles on them. They'll be Carlisle Trail Runner HD's or Goodyear Endurance.

 

[Wayne]

3. The ZF8 is fantastic. The tuning, operation, gear selection, all of it, just great. A+++++ It makes my 10R80 look like a stupid box of rocks comparatively, and my transmission is one of the ones that is working right. I can't say enough good things about that box, I would trade in a heartbeat for it....although I don't love it enough to trade into a Ram.

We have two of the ZF8 transmissions with a total of 250k miles on them. I am here to attest that they are absolutely the best light duty transmission I've ever driven or owned. The TCU is programmed amazingly well and the trans doesn't hunt gears. Better yet, both can be locked into a gear, which also cancels the kick-down, so it stays in that gear until you start to lug. I use this cruising down the interstate. Up hills especially the Durango may lose a bit of speed, but it won't shift. I don't know why shifting annoys me so much, but it does. I absolutely love these transmissions.

 

[MSCH]

within its limitations, you can tow using any vehicle without it being a hassle.

I can still remember my FIL sold his skid steer with trailer to a guy who showed up with a 1500 series GM.
I happened to be there when they buyer was hooking it up and I asked the buyer if he didn't have a bigger truck
and he said " THIS TRUCK IS RATED TO TOW 9000 LBS".

I pointed to my old K3500 SRW and said I wouldn't tow that skid steer very far with that one ton SRW.
(I'm pretty sure the skid steer was 8000lbs without attachments, have no idea what the trailer weighed)

later on we found out the buyer got about a mile down the road and figured out his mistake...

 

[FrozenNorth]

Couple points: the 5.7 at ~400 hp is more than adequate, it's a NA so yes it's going to sing (just like any other NA) a little higher than yours with a turbo, but RPMs are not the only indicator of "working hard" as a turbo is getting force fed fuel and air down its throat, making heat and straining just as hard. Mine will tow at 2200 RPMs all day long (which is 6th gear or "direct" since the last 2 gears are overdrive). It will drop down to 5th or 4th on hills but has no issues whatsoever building power.

This is the only engine used in a half ton that was also used and abused in a 3/4 ton truck for many years. Reliability and long term longevity will not be a problem for this engine when towing. The real issue with these trucks is that Ram tries to keep you out of the throttle. You put your foot in it but the midrange of the pedal is slow to respond (by design) and that gives a sluggish feeling. I'm running a pulsar inline tuner which adds about 15 to 30 hp (increases both fuel and advances spark timing) and fixes the throttle sensitivity - it's a completely new truck in "tow mode", strong and eager to run. You still might need a month or two to reset from that turbo feel but combined with the transmission its a smooth and strong/linear power delivery. There is no lag, no spooling, just a constant and linear pull.

The suspension is a little soft. Not sure about the 4th gens but the 5th gens like mine use progressive coils, so the first inch sags quicker than the second inch. However after towing with mine for a few years, I can safely say that it does not like towing empty without the use of a WDH. That combination of empty truck and heavy trailer is deadly (at least with my trailer). Either have to put some load in the bed/truck kind of like ballast (firewood works great!) and then also use a good WDH and I can tow at 75 mph with thumb and finger even with a kayak strapped to my bed acting like another large sail. I don't recommend the speed of course but it will do it if its setup. These coil suspensions are less forgiving of an unbalanced load.

But yes going down the road without a trailer gives best in class ride and handling so that's the tradeoff.

I echo your comments on the ZF, it's a great gear box and I am extremely pleased with its performance in every way. Its always in the right gear and that combined with the gear limiter makes for a very nice pull.

As for the sumo springs: please do NOT use those. There are reports of frames cracking right above where the spring is installed. The suspension is designed to be forgiving and soak up bumps, the sumo springs turn it into a giant stress point and repeated heavy towing hammers that spot in the frame and eventually it ends up fracturing/cracking it. I don't know if that's just a Ram thing (doubt it, its a solid boxed frame) since I only watch the Ram forums closely. But you shouldn't need anything other than a properly setup WDH. A little sag is fine, the truck handles better this way and something like sumo springs hide the visual indication that a setup is incorrect. I've used the sumos on my truck, as well as the airlift 1000 (not at the same time) and ended up getting rid of both.

Now I just use a hellwig sway bar on the stiffest setting, as well as the Anderson no sway WDH which is a much better performing hitch than the other suspension helpers in combination with the husky centerline I was using before. The Anderson is a static force, it uses chains whereas other WDH's use trunion bars which are essentially stiff springs - so now you have the spring from the WDH interacting and playing off the coils in the rear of the truck and it was all just too much spring and soggyness. The Anderson got rid of the spring in the trailer and now it's just the rear suspension working as designed and I get a really comfortable pull. However at 6000 pounds my trailer might be lighter, I don't know if the Anderson is effective at the weight of your friends trailer though some guys do use the Anderson at heavier weights as well.

 

[Wayne]

^^^^^ great write-up @FrozenNorth !!

 

[ctechbob]

I suspect the people with frame cracking are probably using the 1500# units with the 1" spacer in them so that the spring is contacting the axle all of the time, and are probably hauling more, more often.

We will be doing no such thing. We're simply using the 'blue' 1000# version with the spacer removed as a more progressive bump stop. The axle should still be off of the spring driving flat straight and level, it will just make contact sooner and more progressively. The bump stops that Ram uses are a good bit higher durometer than the Sumo's, so the impact is more abrupt and aggressive. It is all about taking the shock out of the rear suspension when you're hitting bumps, highway expansion joints, and bridge joints. New shocks will help that too when I get her to order a set.

 

[MSCH]

I think alot of what you can tolerate when towing depends on how far and how often you go somewhere with the trailer..
most peeps don't go very far or often , so it doesn't matter all that much but boy if you were to spend months
towing the particular combination in Ctechs example it would wear a person out.

it is worth pointing out there are people referred to as the Tow Police
who think nothing less than a one ton dually is sufficient.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I suspect the people with frame cracking are probably using the 1500# units with the 1" spacer in them so that the spring is contacting the axle all of the time, and are probably hauling more, more often.

We will be doing no such thing. We're simply using the 'blue' 1000# version with the spacer removed as a more progressive bump stop. The axle should still be off of the spring driving flat straight and level, it will just make contact sooner and more progressively. The bump stops that Ram uses are a good bit higher durometer than the Sumo's, so the impact is more abrupt and aggressive. It is all about taking the shock out of the rear suspension when you're hitting bumps, highway expansion joints, and bridge joints. New shocks will help that too when I get her to order a set.

I wasn't using the spacer, I had about 1/4" gap unloaded and it was a terrible ride even unloaded. You felt it everytime it contacted turning my luxurious ride into a spine snapping one (slight exaggeration). They say they're progressive but compared to stock coils it's like hitting the frame over every bump. Combined with the fact that it didn't help control my trailer any they came back off in 3 weeks.

Here is one thread with a guy using Timbrens, few other guys chime in with reports of cracked frames and various suspension helpers. Timbrens are same idea as sumos though they are a little shorter and stiffer. Some good discussion and theories on the physics of it all. Its your/your friends truck so I just wanted to say my piece and leave it at that, but can I suggest you please dig around a little more before installing them.

Anyone get a cracked frame on a 5th gen 1500 yet?

I have a 2019 5th gen 1500 Big Horn. I pull a 6x14 V-nosed single axle United enclosed trailer; its under the weight limits, and utilized Timbren SES jounce stops on my Ram. However, one day about 6 weeks ago, I noticed the back to the bed bouncing sloppily while pulling my enclosed trailer. I...

www.ramforum.com

 

[ctechbob]

As an aside to this whole discussion, most people don't realize that suspension designers these days are using the 'bump stops' as an active part of the suspension. In ye olden days trucks were stiffly sprung and would only touch the stops in extreme conditions. That all ended when the push for more luxurious trucks started. Now trucks are more softly sprung and the bumpstops are in play much more often, even during normal driving/completely unloaded. This is why they went from solid rubber pucks backstopping the axle to a much longer/softer polyurethane.

At least on 1/2 ton and smaller trucks that is. I haven't had a good look at the 3/4 and up trucks. I suspect those are much the same.

Point being, those guys that are stating that they're towing and aren't on the bumpstops, 100% are just about as soon as they're in motion.

 

[MSCH]

At least on 1/2 ton and smaller trucks that is. I haven't had a good look at the 3/4 and up trucks. I suspect those are much the same.

Point being, those guys that are stating that they're towing and aren't on the bumpstops, 100% are just about as soon as they're in motion.

Ctech, even Ram is aiming at the comfort ride with their 2500's now... I believe they went to coil springs on those in 2014,. So even their 2500's dont have a lot of payload capacity.. face facts though, I've read a statistic that something like 70% of pickup trucks on the road never have anything loaded onto the bed..

way back, Chevy used coil springs all around on Chevy pickups, but they went away from it.
not sure on the years but I seem to remember seeing it in the 60's and it was probably gone by 73..

and you do have the other extreme... for instance yesterday I was behind a guy close to my house towing a rather large skid steer with a F250 and his back bumper was just about dragging the ground..I got a good look at him before I ended up behind him, because he crossed in front of me at a 4 way Stop a mile and a half from my house.

 

[FrozenNorth]

As an aside to this whole discussion, most people don't realize that suspension designers these days are using the 'bump stops' as an active part of the suspension. In ye olden days trucks were stiffly sprung and would only touch the stops in extreme conditions. That all ended when the push for more luxurious trucks started. Now trucks are more softly sprung and the bumpstops are in play much more often, even during normal driving/completely unloaded. This is why they went from solid rubber pucks backstopping the axle to a much longer/softer polyurethane.

At least on 1/2 ton and smaller trucks that is. I haven't had a good look at the 3/4 and up trucks. I suspect those are much the same.

Point being, those guys that are stating that they're towing and aren't on the bumpstops, 100% are just about as soon as they're in motion.

I'm not sure why you think this. That's what a good WDH setup is for, I never contact the bump stops in my truck/trailer. My truck has just a tiny bit of "sag", you have to look hard but it's just below level. There is no porpoising, and when the truck drives through dips or whatever you can tell that it's like the whole truck moves up and down as a unit, not just the rear. Can I drive way too fast over a railroad track or something like that to try and force it to hit the bump stops? Probably, but in safe and normal driving there is no contact as far as I can tell.

You towed without a WDH and no doubt if you tow heavy like that I can see you contacting the bump stops.

I have 1750 pounds of payload, my truck tows very well at this point though it took a while to figure it out.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Ctech, even Ram is aiming at the comfort ride with their 2500's now... I believe they went to coil springs on those in 2014,. So even their 2500's dont have a lot of payload capacity.. face facts though, I've read a statistic that something like 70% of pickup trucks on the road never have anything loaded onto the bed..

way back, Chevy used coil springs all around on Chevy pickups, but they went away from it.
not sure on the years but I seem to remember seeing it in the 60's and it was probably gone by 73..

and you do have the other extreme... for instance yesterday I was behind a guy close to my house towing a rather large skid steer with a F250 and his back bumper was just about dragging the ground..I got a good look at him before I ended up behind him, because he crossed in front of me at a 4 way Stop a mile and a half from my house.

Train cars use coils as well. The coils don't offer less payload just because they're coils, but due to how the coils are placed inbound of the tires more than leafs, there is less horizontal stability which is noticeable when running top heavy loads like a truck camper. I'd never pick a ram 2500 for a truck camper.

I know that the cummins 2500's have very load payload, especially the megacab 2500 cummins. One guy on the ram forum has about 1600 or so, less than my 1500.

But the gas 2500's can exceed 3300 pounds. This thread has some examples:

Please Post Payload Sticker from Driver's Door Jamb.

Okay, finally found a 2500 Limited near me that I could drive and view the payload sticker. The news is just awful; 1,990 lb payload. 2019 RAM 2500 SRW 4x4 Limited Crew Cab 6"4" Bed +Delmonico Red, $100 +Towing Tech Grp, $445 +Protection Group, $95 +5th Whl/Gooseneck Towing Prep, $445 +Body...

hdrams.com

 

[MSCH]

Train cars use coils as well. The coils don't offer less payload just because they're coils, but due to how the coils are placed inbound of the tires more than leafs, there is less horizontal stability which is noticeable when running top heavy loads like a truck camper. I'd never pick a ram 2500 for a truck camper.

I know that the cummins 2500's have very load payload, especially the megacab 2500 cummins. One guy on the ram forum has about 1600 or so, less than my 1500.

But the gas 2500's can exceed 3300 pounds. This thread has some examples:

Please Post Payload Sticker from Driver's Door Jamb.

Okay, finally found a 2500 Limited near me that I could drive and view the payload sticker. The news is just awful; 1,990 lb payload. 2019 RAM 2500 SRW 4x4 Limited Crew Cab 6"4" Bed +Delmonico Red, $100 +Towing Tech Grp, $445 +Protection Group, $95 +5th Whl/Gooseneck Towing Prep, $445 +Body...

hdrams.com

yeah, I know... you just figure the most common Ram 2500 is the 4 door shortbed with the Cummins and the guys that buy them have what amounts to a stud pickup that can't carry as much as they think...

I wonder how much suspension travel there is in a rail car ?

 

[FrozenNorth]

yeah, I know... you just figure the most common Ram 2500 is the 4 door shortbed with the Cummins and the guys that buy them have what amounts to a stud pickup that can't carry as much as they think...

I wonder how much suspension travel there is in a rail car ?

There is some question as to the actual differences in frame/suspension between the 2500s and 3500s, with some saying its mainly just the certification/sticker and others thinking there are beefier components. Do you happen to know?

Just curious, I did look at a 2500 cummins before getting my half ton but I knew my use case was small-ish travel trailer and long distance towing and I could get by with the 2500 payload as it's similar to my half ton. The cummins was more of a nice-to-have, better on fuel and I just like how it sounds and the power it puts out. For fulltime rv'ers doing long distance in an airstream I think it could work, but any sort of 5w I just don't see the point unless the only real difference between it and a 3500 is the GVWR sticker.

 

[Wayne]

I wonder how much suspension travel there is in a rail car ?

Funny you should ask. I was standing on Mason St in FoCo yesterday watching a freight train run down the middle of the street. There is a dip in the rail at the crossing and it surprised me how much the truck side frames move around when going over dips in the rail. However, the coil springs probably don't move more than an inch.

 

[MSCH]

There is some question as to the actual differences in frame/suspension between the 2500s and 3500s, with some saying its mainly just the certification/sticker and others thinking there are beefier components. Do you happen to know?

Just curious, I did look at a 2500 cummins before getting my half ton but I knew my use case was small-ish travel trailer and long distance towing and I could get by with the 2500 payload as it's similar to my half ton. The cummins was more of a nice-to-have, better on fuel and I just like how it sounds and the power it puts out. For fulltime rv'ers doing long distance in an airstream I think it could work, but any sort of 5w I just don't see the point unless the only real difference between it and a 3500 is the GVWR sticker.

realistically with the Ram, the steering, brakes, axles , wheel assemblies, transmission , engines are same between 2500 and 3500 SRW ( exception is the HO 3500's ).
I believe the frame is also the same..
you usually have lower gearing final drives on 3500, for instance 373 might be standard and 410 the option
whereas most 2500 Rams come with 342 gearing, 373 the option. I dont know if they still offer 410 in the 2500's except in the Hemi trucks...

even with F250 , F350 SRW comparisons, it comes down to an extra leaf spring as the main difference..

2500's might payload at 2500 max
3500 SRW around 3500
3500 DRW close to 6000.