Byrna less than lethal self defense firearms

[Wayne]

I ran across this product and thought it could be a good tool for self defense. They have pistols and rifles that shoot kinetic energy and chemical projectiles. The pistols fire a 3 gram (45 grains) .68 caliber rounds at speed of up to 340 feet per second. That's enough energy to convince most people they really don't want to get hit with another. If you shoot a pepper ball at them it will have about the same energy and release a pepper chemical deterrent when it hits them. The pain of the impact and the chemical will likely make them want to get away from you.

I'm curious what @dnewton3 thinks about these.

Byrna | Best Non Lethal Self-Defense Products

One of the best defense products available is the Byrna SD, a legal, non-lethal self-defense weapon that fires pepper filled rounds up to 60 feet using CO2. Save lives without the risk of taking one. Empower yourself today!

byrna.com

 

[ctechbob]

I ran across this product and thought it could be a good tool for self defense. They have pistols and rifles that shoot kinetic energy and chemical projectiles. The pistols fire a 3 gram (45 grains) .68 caliber rounds at speed of up to 340 feet per second. That's enough energy to convince most people they really don't want to get hit with another. If you shoot a pepper ball at them it will have about the same energy and release a pepper chemical deterrent when it hits them. The pain of the impact and the chemical will likely make them want to get away from you.

I'm curious what @dnewton3 thinks about these.

Byrna | Best Non Lethal Self-Defense Products

One of the best defense products available is the Byrna SD, a legal, non-lethal self-defense weapon that fires pepper filled rounds up to 60 feet using CO2. Save lives without the risk of taking one. Empower yourself today!

byrna.com

I can tell you first hand, PAVA balls pretty much suck. But I can also say that they don't affect all people the way you'd hope. I prefer them over pepper spray as once you're done playing around with them, the decontamination doesn't take as long. But the downside is the effect it has on your breathing is much more pronounced than with pepper spray.

As far as pain compliance, ehh, they hurt but I wouldn't count on them deterring a methed up douchbag intent on doing you harm if you're relying on pure pain. Best back that up with some chemical agent.

The balls are cute though (This is a powder loaded practice round)

Funnily enough, the practice rounds smell very nice when you launch a bunch of them. Smells like you just poofed a bunch of baby powder in the air.

 

[Wayne]

I can tell you, first hand PAVA balls pretty much suck. But I can also say that they don't affect people the way you'd hope. I prefer them over pepper spray as once you're done playing around with them, the decontamination doesn't take as long. But the downside is the effect it has on your breathing is much more pronounced than with pepper spray.

Do you think they would be effective at convincing someone they really don't want to mess with you?

I didn't know what PAVA is, so this is the wikipedia article:

PAVA spray - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ctechbob]

Do you think they would be effective at convincing someone they really don't want to mess with you?

I didn't know what PAVA is, so this is the wikipedia article:

PAVA spray - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A sober person, probably.

Geeking on drugs, or with mental problems, sadly, much worse odds. PAVA/Pepper doesn't work on everyone either. There are people out there that can walk right through a cloud of it and not even notice.

I know it works on me.

I've been peppered twice on purpose, and have had to fight through probably half a dozen close quarters deployments....SUCKED every....single......time.

Also been PAVA'd once on purpose. Haven't had to fight in any of it yet though.

 

[ctechbob]

Looks like they are using just about the same thing we do. Industry must have decided on a bit of a standard for projectiles.

These are the ones we use. $3 a ball last I asked the training department. Cheaper than a $45 taser cartridge though I reckon as long as you don't dump the whole hopper full of them.

 

[ctechbob]

Sitting here thinking about it. Personally, I would be pretty hesitant to carry a gun shaped less-lethal tool (Even the orange one*). I just feel like there is way too much chance of something going bad wrong. I would rather my girls carry a can of pepper spray (they do). No one is going to mistake that for a gun.

Dirtbags are starting to carry painted/colored guns these days, so, if it is shaped like a gun even if it is orange, its going to get treated like one.

 

[MSCH]

realistically that sort of ammunition is designed for crowd control, moreso than home defense.
I've never been in a situation that required me to need a gun, but I know that if I do it is going to be loaded with traditional cartridges.

 

[dnewton3]

I ran across this product and thought it could be a good tool for self defense. They have pistols and rifles that shoot kinetic energy and chemical projectiles. The pistols fire a 3 gram (45 grains) .68 caliber rounds at speed of up to 340 feet per second. That's enough energy to convince most people they really don't want to get hit with another. If you shoot a pepper ball at them it will have about the same energy and release a pepper chemical deterrent when it hits them. The pain of the impact and the chemical will likely make them want to get away from you.

I'm curious what @dnewton3 thinks about these.

Byrna | Best Non Lethal Self-Defense Products

One of the best defense products available is the Byrna SD, a legal, non-lethal self-defense weapon that fires pepper filled rounds up to 60 feet using CO2. Save lives without the risk of taking one. Empower yourself today!

byrna.com

I am traveling this weekend and only have my phone so long replies are difficult. I will respond in a few days.

 

[dnewton3]

I think any tool that helps protect yourself and others is a good tool. Some are obviously better than others.
Any of these less-than-lethal "guns" (not really a gun, for lack of a better term ...) would be better than having nothing in your hand.

Off the top of my head, here are the pros and cons

PROs:
- no license/permit needed
- fairly easy to control
- even the sight of it looks menacing when it's pointed at a person (perceived as a gun)
- accurate enough for any distance a typical self-defense situation would be
- any accidental discharge or negligent shot would be unlikely to kill someone

CONs:
- though it's not a firearm, it's possible that some municipalities or private entities still might prohibit them; even something like this would be restricted at places like sports arenas, etc
- while easy to control, the user still has to be proficient enough with it or it's just a wasted (missed) shot
- while it may deter someone attacking you with their fists (or maybe a knife), it's not a gun, and so anyone determined to fight you may well still get the advantage over you, quickly.
- any accidental discharge or negligent shot would still harm a person; especially a person who wasn't your intended target.

Also, I can't say this is pro or con, but these are fairly new and so reliability and quality would need to be proven.


It's probably a good tool in the right circumstances. It's not a great tool for all circumstances.