Article on KOA's website written by AI gets electrical advice wrong

[Wayne]

Someone needs to get their AI written articles fact checked before they publish them. This is a bit embarrassing for KOA. The article was on KOA's website, but has been rewritten, evidently by a human with some real-world knowledge.

First mistake:

The main difference between 30 and 50-amp RVs is the plug and wiring. A 50-amp RV has more outlets and wiring, so more power goes to each outlet. Since a 50-amp RV has access to more energy, it can run a different set of appliances. For example, 30-amp RVs typically cannot operate a fridge as it requires large amounts of electricity.

Have you ever seen an RV fridge that takes more than 30 amps? I haven't either.

Second mistake:

Some of the average amp draws for your RV appliances include: 5 amps: Refrigerators

This is a direct contradiction of the previous statement that 30 amps can't run RV refrigerators.

Third mistake:

CAN I RUN MY 30-AMP RV ON A 50-AMP OUTLET AND VICE VERSA?
You can run a 30-amp RV on a 50-amp outlet, but it does come with some risks. While you can use an adapter to plug into the pedestal, it will still provide 50 amps of power, which can overload your system and cause a fire. Keeping your amperage low can ensure your RV is safe from fire and other damage.

No, plugging a 50 amp to 30 amp dogbone into a 50 amp pedestal will not cause a fire in your 30 amp trailer. Obviously the AI doesn't understand Ohm's law.

Blatant mistakes like these sure make you question what you read on the internet.

 

[spasm3]

Running a 30amp adapter to a 50amp outlet, only uses 1 leg, so you have 25amps vs the 30amp outlet. I have used an adapter and ran off the 50amp outlet, when the 30am outlet was all worn out and lose , other wise i use the 30amp.

 

[Wayne]

Running a 30amp adapter to a 50amp outlet, only uses 1 leg, so you have 25amps vs the 30amp outlet.

Actually a 50 amp pedestal has 50 amp available on both legs for 100 amps total. They are called 50 amp, because it's 50 amps at 240v, which is 100 amps at 120v. Regardless, your 30 amp trailer won't draw more than 30 amp, as the main breaker would trip.

 

[MSCH]

is there any individual circuit inside your RV that draws more than say 15A? lets face it, whatever comes into the RV is going to get split into the individual circuit breaker protected circuits past the panel.. if you have 30 in, that is all you can possibly use before something goes click.

as far as what the article says, well it sounds like they are wrong

 

[dnewton3]

Germane to Wayne's point, AI sucks.

The more it's used, the more its flaws are becoming evident. There are some interesting human-written articles that reveal many of the AI flaws. AI regurgitates what it reads from the 'net. It cannot discern truth from fiction. I do realize that I'm oversimplifying it a bit, but you get the point. AI uses all manner of integrated algorithms to adapt its outputs (answers). And I suspect the more correlation it gets from its inputs, the more it regurgitates the output. More simply put, if enough lies are posted about a topic, it will interpret those as a predominant truth; it's the power of majority numbers.

There have been some very interesting AI generated case-law "decisions" which are faked; some malicious and some unintentional. Several courts are now requiring that human verification be done if computer research is used in the briefs and filings; under severe penalty from censure and up to even being banned from the bar in some jurisdictions.

As is said ... garbage in, garbage out.

 

[dnewton3]

Oh, and to be specific about power supplies and demands ... never confuse the two.
I realize most of us know this, but I'll spell it out for a newbie who happens across this thread and doesn't understand the basics of electrical power distribution.

A max supply or demand rating only speaks to what that unique system is capable of by design limit. It does not mean that load and supply are present at any one moment; only the potential for that max by breaker/fuse rating.

The circuit breaker in the pedestal-post box at the RV parking spot is not there to protect the RV; those breakers in the pedestal protect the RV park's equipment (feed lines, switches and gear upstream).

The breakers in your personal RV rig's panel are there to protect the RV itself. If it's rated for 30amps max, there should be a main 30amp breaker or fuse, upstream of the other individual circuits (furnace, a/c, house lights, etc).

So you can always plug a 30amp RV into a 50amp pedestal (with the right connectors employed). The RV should never draw more than 30amps if the main breaker in its main RV panel is properly operating. IF your RV is rated as a 30amp system and it's drawing more than that, it's because something is wrong in your RV, not the pedestal outside.

You can also use a 50amp rated RV system with a 30amp RV power pedestal, (assuming the pedestal breaker is working well and you use the right connectors), but the most you'd get from that set-up is 30amps for your rig, because the pedestal 30amp breaker should limit the supply at that magnitude. You just won't be able to run two a/c units and the microwave and have your hairdryer and curling iron all heating up, while making coffee ...

 

[Wayne]

Spot on @dnewton3

I'll add just a bit. It wouldn't matter if the pedestal could supply 1000 amps at 120v, because of ohm's law. You could plug a nightlight bulb into the 1000 amp 120v supply and because the filament in the light bulb has 960 ohm resistance at 120v, which yields 15 watts. It will not draw more than 15 watts unless you change the voltage.

 

[ctechbob]

Actually a 50 amp pedestal has 50 amp available on both legs for 100 amps total. They are called 50 amp, because it's 50 amps at 240v, which is 100 amps at 120v. Regardless, your 30 amp trailer won't draw more than 30 amp, as the main breaker would trip.

True. I have actually used this to an advantage with our 30a trailer.

I've run across some sites that just have crappy worn out 30a breakers and will trip the pedestal if we're using AC and the water heater, so probably pushing right up against the 30a limit. Once that happens, out comes the 50a adapter. Of course I watch the plug for signs of heat and make sure all the connections are clean.

Beats having the wife yell while I'm in the shower about the AC tripping off.

 

[ctechbob]

Germane to Wayne's point, AI sucks.

The more it's used, the more its flaws are becoming evident. There are some interesting human-written articles that reveal many of the AI flaws. AI regurgitates what it reads from the 'net. It cannot discern truth from fiction. I do realize that I'm oversimplifying it a bit, but you get the point. AI uses all manner of integrated algorithms to adapt its outputs (answers). And I suspect the more correlation it gets from its inputs, the more it regurgitates the output. More simply put, if enough lies are posted about a topic, it will interpret those as a predominant truth; it's the power of majority numbers.

There have been some very interesting AI generated case-law "decisions" which are faked; some malicious and some unintentional. Several courts are now requiring that human verification be done if computer research is used in the briefs and filings; under severe penalty from censure and up to even being banned from the bar in some jurisdictions.

As is said ... garbage in, garbage out.

I was listening to a podcast the other day that was talking about this.

They were saying that 'AI' is running up against a problem, it is training on itself. So the more it gets wrong, the more it will train wrong and the more wrong that will come out. Vicious downward spiral.

 

[Wayne]

They were saying that 'AI' is running up against a problem, it is training on itself. So the more it gets wrong, the more it will train wrong and the more wrong that will come out. Vicious downward spiral.

We have an IA chatbot at work. I've asked it several technical questions and not once did it even come close the to correct answer, but it sure answers like it knows what it's talking about. My opinion is that right now AI is a joke.

 

[dnewton3]

I was listening to a podcast the other day that was talking about this.

They were saying that 'AI' is running up against a problem, it is training on itself. So the more it gets wrong, the more it will train wrong and the more wrong that will come out. Vicious downward spiral.

I've been following AI podcast topics for less than a year, but I do think some things are becoming apparent in a broad sense.

AI is, IMO, just a corollary of what happens with any digital information that is replicated upon itself. Several years ago, there was an audio-enthusiast engineer that decided to duplicate a digital recording of a song, over and over and over (something like 1000 times?). He took some song and just wrote a program that recorded the recording, as if a mirror was looking into a mirror ...
At the end, the "song" was nothing but white-noise static. The nuance of all things musical got lost in the multiplication of information transition.

And so goes AI. It is now inducing itself into a loop of garbage info. The more it seeks to learn, the more it grabs from any source, and as AI does not distinguish the sources, or the integrity of the sources, it makes for some real garbage. Thankfully, I think this might be the quick curtailment of what would otherwise be a runaway scenario.

I'm not saying AI isn't helpful or useful; it is. But it should not, simply cannot, be relied upon as the sole source of information. Human verification must intercede for credibility to be present. What AI can do is speed humans along to answers they might otherwise not get to quickly. Once AI develops an "answer", then humans can check that answer for validity.
Example: AI might develop a vaccine in one year for a virus by doing research faster than any lab could test all the probabilities in a decade's time. But before you release that vaccine for public consumption, you ought to first run proper lab trials and double-blind studies!

Simply put, AI can get you a really fast answer. But you'd better have a human check it's math, because there's no assurance that the answer is correct. And the faster AI goes and relies on itself, the more likely there are to be errors in the answer itself.

 

[spasm3]

Actually a 50 amp pedestal has 50 amp available on both legs for 100 amps total. They are called 50 amp, because it's 50 amps at 240v, which is 100 amps at 120v. Regardless, your 30 amp trailer won't draw more than 30 amp, as the main breaker would trip.

I stand corrected!

 

[MSCH]

if you believe everything you read or are told, you deserve whatever happens to you.

 

[Wayne]

if you believe everything you read or are told, you deserve whatever happens to you.

Isn't that the truth!

 

[OLEJOE]

Some people need AI because they don’t have any intelligence on their own.